Curse

Yanman.be · May 30, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Expertise even reduces the energy cost of glyphs, wich are only useful if you use spells...does that make sense? No...

So please, don't nerf...

( Sidenote, I still remember back when R/E 's were used for glyph of concentration + traps..but they fixed the "bug" like 6 months ago )

Fr_3_aK · May 30, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Vote: Nerf touch rangers.

Expertise was meant to make only rangers use bows /traps because bows skills/ traps have high nrg costs.

As a necro im also insulted that our skills are being abused by rangers.

Anet nerfed MMs without even flinching, nerf touch rangers while you're at it. gg anet.

lyra_song · May 30, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

To add to this, other classes need stance breaking skills.

Eles: Body Crush: Earth spell: A large stone falls on your opponent and does X dmg. If opponent is in a stance, the stance ends.

Ranger: Arrow Net: Fire an arrow that does X dmg each. If any arrows are blocked or evaded, the target loses their stance.

Mesmer: Sword Mirage: Spell: Target receives X melee dmg. If this is blocked, the target is knocked down and ends their stance.

Undivine · May 30, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Mesmer: Sword Mirage: Spell: Target receives X melee dmg. If this is blocked, the target is knocked down and ends their stance.

I'd change that to "ends their stance and then is knocked down." That way it cuts through Balanced Stance.

I wouldn't put too many stance breaking skills into the game though. Leave some things sacred, ya know?

Criminally Sane · May 30, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

The only place in the game the touch ranger comes even remotely close to being overpowered is in RA, so it's not really in need of a nerf at all.

QFT... c'mon now people. If touch rangers were so godly, you'd see a lot more teams running them in organized PvP. There are counters aplenty (snare anyone?), which only allows them to thrive in the chaos that is RA.

Ggraphix · May 30, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

Vile Touch, Vampiric Touch, and Touch of Agony make them "Attack Skills"

i dont think the recharge times need to be fixed

things that stop attacks would now have an impact -- like empathy, ineptitude, or sig of midnight...

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you just have to think of a way you're less vulnerable to those type of attacks if you're worried about losing.
Isn't that the point of the game, skill strategy and setup, then how you use them?

Undivine · May 30, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ggraphix

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you just have to think of a way you're less vulnerable to those type of attacks if you're worried about losing.
Isn't that the point of the game, skill strategy and setup, then how you use them?

Well apart from crippling (only by spells, as their stances will prevent ranger cripple), how can you counter these?

Gargle Blaster · May 30, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ggraphix

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you just have to think of a way you're less vulnerable to those type of attacks if you're worried about losing. Isn't that the point of the game, skill strategy and setup, then how you use them?

if a touch ranger is next to you using these "skills" there is nothing you can do but run away. there is no skill to lower the damage: ward, stance or mantra. there is no way to limit the amount of life gained by the ranger.

interupt... not an option with lag, casting times, and these are not spells.

e-denile... Sure if you suck out all the energy of a person they c/n use their skills.... but there is no counter to these skills after they have been triggered. And as i have said before in this thread energy drain is not unique to touch ranger... have you ever noticed that e-denile gets nerfed at every skill balance?

Degen... well this is not really a counter to touch ranger, is it, as they can out heal it.

snare + kite... all this does is make for a long game... as you are not killing them...

degen + snare + kite... finally somthing that works... oh wait is there any class that wont die to this... nothing but monk would live.

knockdowns -- good but you also must have somthing that does alot of damage and you must keep them down. (also on the list of things that get nerfed alot)

what i am suggesting is not a HUGE nerf... to say that blind would stop you from touching someone is not huge, rangers(with weapons) warriors and assassins must deal with blind why should touch rangers be any diffrent?

yes i understand nobody likes unneeded nerfs... but i have seen 0 arguments that support the idea that touch rangers are currently ballanced in anyway.

Please include any reasons WHY you think there should or shouldn't be a nerf.

Daxime · May 30, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

agreed, evasion stances and blind should apply to touch skills to. like Vampiric Bite, you think it's easier to Bite someone when you're blind than to swing a sword at them blind?

lyra_song · May 30, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I actually found that the timing of punishing and savage vs a touch ranger this weekend in an alliance battle is perfect. Every time he began his touch, i popped him in the face. I threw in a debilitating shot just for kicks, and since i had apply poison and hunter's shot, he pretty much died running away (he got frustrated).

I really dont know what kind of solution there is to this if you are so unhappy.

We have a few options though:

Nerf Expertise to not include "Skills": Would remove warrior skills that a ranger could use. Would also completely KILL this build.

Nerf Touch skills to be attacks: Now the vampiric touches are attacks. But they dont involve a weapon, UNLIKE EVERY OTHER ATTACK. And now blindness and Empathy will affect you.

Consequentially this kind of nerf would bring to question ALL vampiric weapons and skills. Vampiric weapons can cause life steal even through things like Mist Form. If we nerf those two, why stop there and just nerf all the lifestealing techniques?

Increase recharge/cost Vampiric touch is a starting skill for Necromancers. I really dont like this option.

Buff some stances to include touch skills in evasion Two words: Deadly Riposte.

IllusiveMind · May 30, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

What gets abused gets nerfed. But too bad that they can't nerf this particular due to some in game mechanics like Lyra said "

Quote:

Increase recharge/cost Vampiric touch is a starting skill for Necromancers. I really dont like this option.

"

So... learn to counter it, period.

Undivine · May 30, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Traditionally an effective way to nerf some builds has been to simply introduce new skills that counter it. Perhaps you can hope for some solution in chapter 3.

Chicken Ftw · May 30, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Here's a skill that's been in the game since it's been out that works vs all melee chars. Kiting. Lern2play. <.<

Daxime · May 30, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

most touch rangers have both Dodge and Escape equipped.

TurinPT · May 30, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I wouldnt say nerf... its more like a fix.
Where does it say expertise is supposed to reduce touch skills cost?

Chicken Ftw · May 30, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daxime

most touch rangers have both Dodge and Escape equipped.

I prefer OoB. More energy = more touches = win. Sure, they have dodge. Can still kite. Even with a speed boost, they'll still not touch you as often. Snare makes it even easier. My point is, don't sit there with your char and take it from a melee class, then say ohnoes overpowered. "Warriors are overpowered, I got evisc-executioner spiked 'cause I sat there like a douche."

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but this build's only mildly overpowered in RA. And alliance battle, which is 12 man RA. So... RA. In RA, a 4 wamo team can go to 10 consec easy. God forbid your team gets a monk, autowin unless he drops. Healing Hands > most mobs in PvE. Nerf? Nah. Don't nerf touch rangers for the same reason you don't nerf Healing Hands. In organized PvP, it's complete trash.

pipedream · May 31, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Leave the build alone... why not nerf every good build someone comes up with? Whats the point in finding a great combo if you nerf it when its found? Thats the point of the hundreds of skills avaliable in this game. Many godly build are yet to be discovered especially with all the new factions skills and the already anticipated 3rd chapter.

There are counter measures that are very effective against Touch Rangers. Go to battle prepared to deal with them.

pork soldier · May 31, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

crippling shot, pin down, crippling anguish, deep freeze, ice spikes, frozen burst, imagined burden, ethereal burden, spike trap, snare, barbed trap, iron mist....

All you have to do is learn to counter touch rangers and you've nerfed them, they're not hard to kill.

batou · May 31, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

aw geez.. another nerf thread =/

Why nerfing tough rangers pointless:

The only place that touch rangers are effective is RA where everyone is unorganized. Any organized arenas, and a touch necro build is usually easily defeated.

is it to cheap that vamp touch is a skill not a spell? no. Sure its not affected by backfire and whatnot... but its still vurnerable to anti-skill skills. Blackout any1?

maybe you say that touches should be treated like a weapon attack skill?
Maybe touches should be suceptable to blind and weakness? Plague touch any1?

Distant · Jun 04, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I can 1 on 1 a touch ranger as war. But when there is an alliance of touch rangers...in Alliance Battle, its obviously unfair.

Anyone who has ever PVP'd has seen a touch ranger =P and I bet you have atleast heard 1 person go... D: that is an unfair build. Im not necessarily one of those people...but I do believe they need to be patched to keep whole alliances of them from screwing everyone else over <.<

So, I offer a solution..in the suggestions area of www.guildwars.com/support....and its really funny but they told me to make a post HERE about i O.o...er more specifically...on one of the fansites...<.< basically saying.. "No we dont care leave mmkay bye!" imo >.>

But in the fleeting hope that someone actually gives a damn...and more importantly can do something about it... I offer this solution for debate.

If we limit ranger expertise attribute to ranger ONLY skills (afterall...if your main is a ranger..shouldnt you be an expert ranger, not an expert secondary?) If this were done it would not hinder the use of ranger for 90% of builds. Most importantly it would clean PVP up from those touch ranger teenieboppers.

Undivine: Edited for continuity.